$20 CDN too much ?

YouTube · Post by **admin** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:34 pm

How would you reply to this?

masterarcanist wrote: 17+ bucks (usd) seems a bit much for this type of aid.

They never have all of the stuff in it you need for the campaign you're playing (races, classes, feats, prc, etc.). Its just not possible because of ip issues, so you end up having to modify it. If I have to fix/modify a sheet, then I don't feel I should pay a whole lot for it (if at all).

None of these things seems to have a good way to add feats that alter combat stats or ability stats, so you spend a lot of your own time figuring out how to make it work for your game.

If it were priced in the 3-8 range and it was accurate, then I would see getting it as a baseline for modifying it. Otherwise I'll take a less functional model and do more work on it.

Richard

Post by **Flinx** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:36 pm

I don't think so... I mean you will pay at least this much for any dnd source book that you buy, and I have gotten alot more use out of the sheet than just about any source book I have ever bought (Possible exception of DMG and PHB)

As far as what it has in it, yeah, there are a few things missing... but not much. It is by far the most complete sheet I have ever seen. And, Richard is constantly updating the sheet (and, you get those updates for free and it is very easy to move your character from an old version of the sheet to a new one.) Where else do you get a product that is constantly evolving for a 1 time fee?

Post by **larenee** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:24 pm

I'll be honest; I'd pay the fee anually for this level of support. I'd rather you didn't, but given your continuous correction and improvement; the sheet would be worth it. Plus, the fact that you keep things completely legal means that you're likely to be around a while. Eventually, those 'sheets' which include non-OGL material will be faced with the legal conseqences of violating copyrights. The Only Sheet is not at risk for this. I certainly won't be going anywhere else for my automated character sheet needs!

Troy

BTW: We'll be taking you up on your christmas offer to buy the sheet for friends. We'll be in touch.... 8)

YouTube · Post by **admin** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:10 pm

larenee wrote:BTW: We'll be taking you up on your christmas offer to buy the sheet for friends. We'll be in touch.... 8)

8)

Richard

Post by **TheGreenLabrador** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:43 am

After being a member for such a short time and getting incredible support in record time, I must say that even if I stop using the sheet tomorrow, I got enough support and aid, use out of the sheet to do what I wanted it to do (which making a 3 class gestalt 20th level char is no easy task for any sheet) , it is totally worth the money I spent.

Post by **Omegaman** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:13 am

Buying this sheet for $17 is a no brainer. I know nothing about excel and sometimes have a challenge getting the sheet to do all the rule-breaking stuff that I house-rule, but the support I get is almost instantaneous. I'm talking about answers posted in 10 minutes or less to my questions. WOW! Now that's service. That alone is worth the $17. The sheet is excellent, just wish I didn't have to learn how to do formulas.
If we have difficulty coming up with the $17 then we need to evaluate how important our time is. Because I don't spend hours to create a character with this sheet. It's fast. Real fast. And correct. Thanks Richard & crew.

Post by **gondolin1** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:11 am

I know, after all I paid 32$ for the complete adventurers guidebook.

Post by **irdeggman** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:49 pm

I think the price is fine. A discount on buying several copies at once might not be a bad idea though.

Post by **steeladept** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:38 pm

irdeggman wrote:I think the price is fine. A discount on buying several copies at once might not be a bad idea though.

There is. See section 6.8 of FAQ

Okay, it is not exactly all at once, but close enough...

Post by **takei27** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:28 pm

Omegaman wrote:Buying this sheet for $17 is a no brainer. I know nothing about excel and sometimes have a challenge getting the sheet to do all the rule-breaking stuff that I house-rule, but the support I get is almost instantaneous. I'm talking about answers posted in 10 minutes or less to my questions. WOW! Now that's service. That alone is worth the $17. The sheet is excellent, just wish I didn't have to learn how to do formulas.
If we have difficulty coming up with the $17 then we need to evaluate how important our time is. Because I don't spend hours to create a character with this sheet. It's fast. Real fast. And correct. Thanks Richard & crew.

I completely agree here.

It's not the sheet, per se that we pay the (unreasonably low) registraion price for, it is access to the support, and the registered side of these forums, where the community has deveolped a very close bond with the sheet, and there are quite a few shared classes/races already posted. What I don't understand is why you feel that $8 US would be worth Richard's time. Personally, I feel that we all are underpaying Richard, but as I am poor, I cannot complain.

Remember, Richard has busted his rump on this, and to insult his work like you did is unfair and hurtful.

just a thought.

Post by **masterarcanist** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:08 am

takei27 wrote:... to insult his work like you did is unfair and hurtful. ...

It was never my intention to be insulting or hurtful. I don't see that I have been but if that is the perception, then please accept my apologies.

I agree that you are primarily buying support and it may very well be worth it if you are not proficient and/or do not want to spend the time to make it work on your own. My biggest concern is the amount of work that is necessary to add additional material (ip and new).

I also compare this product to others that have more features, cost a few dollars more, and have just as much support. I just don't see the justification to spend as much as is asked.

Again, if I have offended anyone, that is not my intention.

Post by **HelloRaptor** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:20 am

I'm unaware of any other products that have as much functionality and customization support as this, for any price, really. Maybe I've missed them.

Post by **Lickitys Plit** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:44 pm

I have been looking for a sheet like this for years.... This is the first one that I found that actually helped me design a character.... I have not seen any better. I have not searched the entire internet... but I have looked around a bit. Sure you have to add the customizing things. But every player is different... Heck, every one of my characters are different. You cannot make one that will have everything for everybody.

If you know of one that is better. Tell me and I wiill compare them..( I have a lot of spare time....aahh, no I don't I play to much D & D

)

I believe that This sheet was worth every penny I paid for it. ( I found it just before Christmas).

Post by **ScottJack** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:01 am

This sheet, combined with this website, form an excellent resource - one that is worth $20 when compared to other sheets found online.

Post by **Dethedrus** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:21 pm

$20 CDN is nearly what I'd classify as a steal to be perfectly honest.

As an Excel junkie and tinker, I've made a number of sheets for various games (most notable Alternity and D&D) and I can only begin to imagine that vast amount of labor involved with a project of this complexity. Not only that, the improvements that I've seen from when I first saw the sheet (6.x I believe) to now that I've just registered represent a fairly large improvement on an already sterling product.

The fact that it's not bogged down or unnecessarily complex (the kitchen sink approach used by such notables as eTools), and is extremely portable makes any sort of price justification fairly easy. Add the extreme flexibility of adding/sharing any sort of non-SRD materials, and I can't see why anyone would question the price at all

Post by **Tamera** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:35 pm

**Stands on soapbox**

When Richard started this sheet (more than a year ago) he never imagined it going this far. His dedication to it have shown through. From day one he did not know that much about how to format and use the program that you now all enjoy. He LEARNED it as he went and is still learning as we all are.
I knew Richard before he started this sheet and know how hard he worked on it.

No sheet to date can be as versitile as a pen or pencil when it comes to convenience of changing stats or additions that need to be made to characters and other creations.

I've been gaming for over 20 years and from what I've seen and experienced there IS no better sheet.

Richard has worked wonders and I do not hesitate to show my appreciation by deed (donations) or word (rambings).

AWESOME work Richard.

Remember this: "You can't please all of the people ALL of the time".

**Steps OFF soapbox**

~~Now back to our regularly scheduled program~~

Tamera

YouTube · Post by **admin** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:53 pm

Thank you Tammy!
Indeed you were there before everything started... I'll not forget!

Here is a virtual Rose for your visual enjoyment

R

Post by **Kosaphia** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:15 pm

Tamera wrote:]

No sheet to date can be as versitile as a pen or pencil when it comes to convenience of changing stats or additions that need to be made to characters and other creations.

I agree with Tamera above, however as a person who has only been role playing for about 3 years now, there is always something I forget to add in, remove, add to, take away from when making and playing characters. So in some ways "versitility" is a hinderance.

This sheet having all of the formulas has really improved my game play and my enjoyment of the game. Additionally, as I've gone through and used this sheet to make more characters and improve establised ones I've learned more about the game and about how different thing work together.

I honestly believe if I hadn't had this sheet I wouldn't be playing any more. (Power gamers and their way with "rule and stats" really put a damper on gaming until the DM or myself were able to "double check" what they were claiming via the sheet).

So I heartily thank Richard and anyone who's helped with this sheet. This sheet is not only worth the $20 now, but is would even be worth paying a subscrition for if I needed to in order to keep getting updates.

Post by **wolf_spider333** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:35 am

I believe the sheet is well worth it. Not only does it make things easier helping people find little bonuses they might have missed, but it also helps put different levels of gamers closer to the same page. My wife has only been playing a short time compared to me but because the sheet calculates out everything for her she can concentrate on how to play instead of sitting there trying to figure out if everything adds up on her sheet the right way or not...

Post by **Dougula** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:00 pm

I have been playing D&D since the 6th grade (25 years ago) and the one thing I despised the most about the game was thumbing thru the books to put together a new character, check stats, saves, bonuses, Ac mods ETC.. This sheet is an absolute BLESSING for people like me who dislike thumbing thru books for hours to make sure your character is correct, so you don't get dinged by the uptight DM who finds one mistake, must go thru your character piece by piece, wasting game time and generally just pissing one off..LOL ANYHOW, this sheet and the rescources are worth the price and the support is absolutely TOP NOTCH!! I have recommended the SHEET to quite a few of my gaming friends and ALL have said it's the best.. So I say, keep up the great work!! My D&D life is MUCH easier because of THE ONLY SHEET!!

Post by **Razgriz** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:04 pm

I've been playin dnd for bout 2 years now..Not long compared to most others but im also considerably younger then all of them. This sheet is worth more then 20 canadian dollars to me. I always forget something about my character like synergys and most times i roll and miss by 1 or 2. But with my hide going up from like 12-15 from things i didnt notice i like it alot. Now i just need to get a laptop to play off of

Post by **HelloRaptor** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:07 am

Laptops are indeed a lifesaver, as much as a player as a DM.

Post by **BlackRookSix** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:04 pm

I paid. I support efforts like this.

Post by **aitris** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:09 pm

I have just aquired the sheet and have never been so pleased with anything I have spent money on for D&D. I have only used the sheet to create one character a Ranger11/Fighter4/Paladin1 It was amazing I didn't have to touch my PHB it sat on the shelf. I can't wait to explore the other potential uses for the sheet (Bravo to Richard)

Post by **Trojan** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:14 pm

Only problem at the moment is I do not have excel - only micro soft works spreadsheet, which does not appear to have the capability of handling the excel sheet.

Guess I have to upgarde.

Post by **Nighthawk** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:20 am

Well, I obviously think it's worth it, I paid for a copy of the public release of TOS+ today and registered here and all to join in on all the friendly conversation that I hear to much about from Troy (larenee), he'd tell you that though I'm new in the world of D&D, it didn't take long to not only get me hooked, but to swallow the hook. So yes, for something this awesome and helpful to a newer player like myself, it's worth every penny and then some.

P.S. Hi from the newbie around here.

Post by **larenee** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:02 pm

Nighthawk wrote:...it didn't take long to not only get me hooked, but to swallow the hook.

Have to love fresh blood ... uh, I mean ... new recruits.

Troy

Post by **egyas** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:06 pm

I don;t think the price (roughly $17 USD) is too much. I was hesitant at first, until I played with the Demo. I am an Etools user, but Etools has a lot of flaws, and is now discontinued. The one big advantage it obviously had over TOS is that it had access to ALL the datasets. Since playing with TOS, I have also purchased TOS+. I love it!

I'm wondering if there would be a way to get access to the rest of the datasets. I know they said "NO!" to you when you asked, but I wonder if they would say "Yes!" to a licensing agreement. I'd bet that the users would donate to a fundraiser to raise the money to pay the licensing fee if Wizards would allow it.

Post by **larenee** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:46 pm

egyas wrote:I'm wondering if there would be a way to get access to the rest of the datasets. I know they said "NO!" to you when you asked, but I wonder if they would say "Yes!" to a licensing agreement. I'd bet that the users would donate to a fundraiser to raise the money to pay the licensing fee if Wizards would allow it.

While a license from Wizards would be ideal, there is a way to implement many of the features of non-open content. This is accomplished by various TOS users creating and sharing race/class files in the appropriate sections of the forums. Plus the spell data shared in the Tips and Tricks section.

Still, an official license would be nice, as this would allow the full integration of other official material.... For now, Richard has created a versatile system which allows us users to create nearly anything we can imagine, so we CAN use material from the source books we have each purchased.

Troy

Post by **Sunbolt** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:26 pm

I agree that any kind of agreement would be worthwhile if it allows use of the full content and not just the SRD... however, I think that's already been explored and nixed. I doubt that WotC forgot to mention a chance to make money when they were asked. But look into the legal stuff and see if they do it for anyone else.... maybe they would be interested.

TOS Community Forum

$20 CDN too much ?

$20 CDN too much ?

20.00$ is cheap.

Glad to support