[OFFICIAL MAP] Underground Caverns

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[OFFICIAL MAP] Underground Caverns

Post by admin » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:23 pm

Map Details

TITLE: Underground Caverns
VERSION: v1.1
CREATOR: admin (Gridlines by Duniagdra)
SETTING: Caverns (Underground)
SIZE: 20x42 (Approximately)
SYMMETRIC: Yes
LIGHTING OPTIONS: Can be run with or without light sources
STARTING POSITIONS: AD2 and M32
CREATOR'S NOTES: The black area is the solid rock area. There are many rock columns, all displayed in black. The DM will have to carefully examine this map to determine if the Gladiators 'see' each other or not. Perception (Spot) checks might be required, depending on the lighting source used. Consider someone using a torch to be visible at long range as opposed to someone not using any torches. Note that players should send their movement to the DM directly, as long as both PCs do not 'see' the other one's position!
Also consider using 'random' starting locations for added fun!


SPECIAL RULES:
  1. You can't "Stay" in the 'corridor' whence you came in (you have to commit to entering the caverns).
  2. You must not 'post' your movements - those must be coordinates to the DM's eyes ONLY, until such a time as both players SEE each other (Line of Sight).
  3. To get the match flowing, a Gladiator cannot remain stationary (camped) for more than 3 rounds (5' steps do not count as movements) as long as the gladiator has NOT detected the position of the adversary. After camping, you cannot camp again for 3 rounds. Once engaged, the rule for camping will no longer apply.

HISTORY:
[Active][Underground Cavern][Duni]: Zyss vs Amra
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Re: [OFFICIAL MAP] Underground Caverns

Post by admin » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:43 am

Updated to v1.1
  • With the help of Duni, the grid line is now more visible in the black areas (to reduce the chance of coordinate errors!)

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Re: [OFFICIAL MAP] Underground Caverns

Post by Duniagdra » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:04 pm

Rules of the Underground Caverns:
  1. You can't "Stay" in the 'corridor' whence you came in (you have to commit to entering the caverns).
  2. You must not 'post' your movements - those must be coordinates to the DM's eyes ONLY, until such a time as both players SEE each other (Line of Sight).
  3. To get the match flowing, a Gladiator cannot remain stationary (camped) for more than 3 rounds (5' steps do not count as movements) as long as the gladiator has NOT detected the position of the adversary. After camping, you cannot camp again for 3 rounds. Once engaged, the rule for camping will no longer apply.
Image Marcus Tilsworth - Human Sorcerer
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Image Tryzscatzmel Ry - Gnome Alchemist
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Re: [OFFICIAL MAP] Underground Caverns

Post by admin » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:25 am

As Jim and I discussed this in Chat, I approve
Richard
Duniagdra wrote:Rules of the Underground Caverns:
  1. You can't "Stay" in the 'corridor' whence you came in (you have to commit to entering the caverns).
  2. You must not 'post' your movements - those must be coordinates to the DM's eyes ONLY, until such a time as both players SEE each other (Line of Sight).
  3. To get the match flowing, a Gladiator cannot remain stationary (camped) for more than 3 rounds (5' steps do not count as movements) as long as the gladiator has NOT detected the position of the adversary. After camping, you cannot camp again for 3 rounds. Once engaged, the rule for camping will no longer apply.

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Re: [OFFICIAL MAP] Underground Caverns

Post by admin » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:28 am

Also, we need to work out/decide the various DC to "Spot"/"Hear" the other player, depending if he has a source of light, or none, and Distance.... (Shai help?)

I'd wager that someone holding a source of light would be much more visible in the 'dark' from afar!

R

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Re: [OFFICIAL MAP] Underground Caverns

Post by shai-hulud » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:42 am

SRD wrote:Vision And Light

In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly. A creature can’t hide in an area of bright light unless it is invisible or has cover.

In an area of shadowy illumination, a character can see dimly. Creatures within this area have concealment relative to that character. A creature in an area of shadowy illumination can make a Hide check to conceal itself.

In areas of darkness, creatures without darkvision are effectively blinded. In addition to the obvious effects, a blinded creature has a 50% miss chance in combat (all opponents have total concealment), loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, takes a -2 penalty to AC, moves at half speed, and takes a -4 penalty on Search checks and most Strength and Dexterity-based skill checks.

Characters with low-light vision (elves, gnomes, and half-elves) can see objects twice as far away as the given radius. Double the effective radius of bright light and of shadowy illumination for such characters.

Characters with darkvision (dwarves and half-orcs) can see lit areas normally as well as dark areas within 60 feet. A creature can’t hide within 60 feet of a character with darkvision unless it is invisible or has cover.
That provides the rules for three circumstances: Bright light, Shadowy Illumination, and Darkness. We know the relative distances at which things provide illumination. Because of this, we can extrapolate the inverses. A creature at the center of bright light would be in bright light, even to a creature in complete darkness. A creature in shadowy illumination is in shadowy illumination, even to a creature in complete darkness. Both of these conditions are defined, both for lighting and for items that provide such lighting. Example: Character X places a torch on the wall, then walks forty feet away from it (into shadowy illumination). Character Y approaches the light source until he is 80 feet away. If Character Y has normal human vision, then he can see Character X in shadowy illumination (provided Character X does not attempt to Hide). If Character Y has low-light vision, then Character X is in bright light relative to his visual acuity.
If Character X has low-light vision, then Character Y is standing within his range of shadowy illumination.

The DCs for spot and listen are well founded. Listen checks go against a creature's Move Silently skill check. Spot checks go against a creature's Hide skill check. These are opposed rolls. Additionally, every 10 feet of distance between the characters adds a +1 to the DC. In example above, if Character X has low-light vision, but Character Y does not, then relative to each other, both are in shadowy illumination. Assuming that both attempt to hide and move silently, here would be the relative DCs:

Characters X and Y spotting and listening for each other:

Code: Select all

Spot               Listen
----               ------
Hide check + 4     Move Silently check + 4
The +4s are because the characters are 40 feet apart from each other. Keep in mind that the DC to hear someone who is not moving increases. The creature's only noise will be his breathing. Because it is difficult to determine someone's location by breathing, I'll equate it to a similar example: the owl gliding in for the kill example in the Listen skill. The owl has a +17 to Move Silently. Assuming it takes 10 on the check, that's a DC 27. But, the SRD is claiming that it is a DC 30, so moving only air increases the DC by 3 it would seem. I'd say that is a decent circumstance modifier. Holding one's breath, of course, would increase the DC even higher. It would be as though the creature were invisible (invisible creatures gain a +20 to their hide checks, so it would make sense that a creature that is not moving and holding its breath would gain a +20 to its move silently check).
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Re: [OFFICIAL MAP] Underground Caverns

Post by admin » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:12 am

Could this be 'fitted' (presented) inside a table (or 2), with distances?
I.e a 'target' column, which gives, according to the lighting around it, the Spot modifiers
and some such for Listen checks?

I'm thinking that such a table would make the DM's life real easy...

R

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Re: [OFFICIAL MAP] Underground Caverns

Post by shai-hulud » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:19 am

I don't understand the table that you are looking for. The DC is equal to the opponent's skill check. The table would say exactly what the table I displayed says. If you are attempting to spot, the DC is opponents Hide check +1/10' distance between you. If you are attempting to Listen, the DC is opponent's Move Silently check +1/10' distance between you. I made up the breathing only modifier. That would be up to the DM if he wanted to add a circumstantial bonus, I was using a similar example. In the base rules, if you are not moving, it is the same Move Silently modifier as if you are moving. I added the non-moving aspect simply for realism, but it is not necessary to a judge who does not want to use that.

Lighting has NO modifiers for Spot and Listen checks. It simply dictates WHEN you can hide.
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Re: [OFFICIAL MAP] Underground Caverns

Post by Duniagdra » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:44 am

Rules are already defined by the SRD. I'm fine with that.
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Re: [OFFICIAL MAP] Underground Caverns

Post by admin » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:57 am

ah ok!

R

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Re: [OFFICIAL MAP] Underground Caverns

Post by shai-hulud » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:01 pm

Listen DC: I have been thinking about the listen DC to determine the direction your enemy is traveling. I have searched the rules, and they mention nothing about echoing caverns. So, I propose the following rules:

Under normal circumstances, the DC of listen checks increases by +1 for every 10' between the listener and the target to be listened. Instead, I suggest that this be +1 per 20', as sound travels better in underground caverns. So, the DC to hear sound is the target's Move Silently check +1/20'. Hearing the sound, however, doesn't tell you a direction. You must defeat the DC by 5 to figure out a direction, and beat the DC by 20 to be able to determine an exact distance/location (the +20 is actually in the rules, the +5 is my own increase, based on similar rules for other skills). If you fail by less than 5 (in other words, you succeed at hearing the noise, but you don't successfully pinpoint the direction), the DM secretly rolls a d3 for every point by which the check missed (maximum 4d3) and the direction is chosen from the following list based on the result:
  1. Note: If direction is off by n map points, this means that if the correct direction is North, the perceived direction is NW or NE (1 map point); W or E (2 map points); SW or SE (3 map points); or S (4 map points). For all choices, roll 1d2 to determine the perceived direction.
  2. Correct direction is selected.
  3. Seems to be coming from 2 different directions: the correct direction and 1 map point off
  4. Direction off by 1 map point
  5. Seems to be coming from 2 directions: the correct direction and 2 map points off
  6. Seems to come from 3 directions: the correct direction, 1 map point off, and 2 map points off
  7. Direction off by 2 map points
  8. Seems to be coming from 2 directions: the correct direction and 3 map points off
  9. Seems to be coming from 3 directions: the correct direction, 1 map point off, and 3 map points off
  10. Seems to be coming from 3 directions: 1 map point off, 2 map points off, and 3 map points off
  11. Direction off by 3 map points
  12. Seems to be coming from 4 directions: the correct direction, 1 map point off, 3 map points off, and 4 map points off
  13. Seems to be coming from all directions
If this seems too complicated, does someone have another suggestion?
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