Die Roller Poll

Many millennia ago, the Celestials built a great prison within the Planet of Golarion. The prison warded off those who would enter, and also walled in and magically trapped those who would escape. Within it the Celestials imprisoned hellish Undead, demonic beasts, and fiendish monstrosities. Now these beasts are breaking out with a serious chip on their shoulders. The gods believe you can stop them.................do you?
Post Reply

Which die roller system do you prefer

1) Just stick with Invisible Castle and wait for it to come up to roll
0
No votes
2) Just stick with IC and let DM roll dice if it is down
8
89%
3) Just stick with IC and let Player roll dice if it is down
0
No votes
3) Try out Hamete and switch to it if it is reliable
1
11%
4) Add Hamete and use as a backup if IC is down
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 9

cave_lion
Divine Rank 1
Divine Rank 1
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:33 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Die Roller Poll

Post by cave_lion » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:25 pm

I'd like to see if anyone has clear preferences for rolling dice. I like Invisible Castle--but it has been down nearly as much as it has been up lately. Probably they will fix this eventually... There is another alternative--I haven't tried it--but it looks like I create a log area that everyone can then roll dice in. Anyone who has used this? Once figured out is it easier to use than IC? Any Pros or Cons anyone wants to share?

Here is some info on the Hamete Service (and security courtesy of Arpat):
Arpat wrote:an alternative to a dice roller like Invisible Castle is the Hamete Service: https://dicelog.com/dice
You need to accept the security warning etc.
the DM can create a https://dicelog.com/newlogdice Dice Log
when people create accounts they can be added to the log.
its a little complex and i guess it will take 5 minutes of reading, puzzling etc. but then it works.

ah i think a little explanation would be in order about the certificate (inside the spoiler since this is a Game Thread)
and the error it generates:
First: the certificate is completely valid. It only isn't validated by a trusted third party like verisign. Everybody with a windows server can create a certificate and it only assures that your connection through the server is secure (https) and hashed with the certificates code.
If you want to create a "false" identical server it cant be verified. From a bank you will need that verification and therefore the bank has a counterpart that you can verify with verisign.
so what is it with this certificate?
This certificate, once you accept it enables secure communication and therefore your results cant be changed or falsified. The only thing you can't do is verify that this server actually is the one you want to talk to. (no verisign counterpart) So i could create an identical server with a certificate and put the link in a message with the most wondrous results (i always roll natural 20's). However, you would have to accept my certificate which cant have the same hash as the original server. therefore you can always determine that my results are from another source.
Resume:
The certificate is a little overkill, but then some people can't take it when they die because of bad luck and they start to tamper with results. (which is possible here, but very difficult - it probably is that difficult that you can hack into the database anyway and create your own results at will.) i don't think it will happen.

btw: the main reason for not having a trusted certificate is the steep price. Even the most basic certificate is at verisign: Total: US $695 (excluding taxes)
I guess a good reason NOT to buy one for two year ;) i guess it is better to donate that to Richard :D[/spoiler]

To conclude my little story:
ALL websites that have something to do with people's money, like credit card company or paypal ALWAYS have a trusted certificate. If it isn't valid then you can check why it isn't valid. (but DONT buy anything, DONT give in your credit card and NEVER give pincodes or similar things. BANKS will NEVER ask them on the internet. If in doubt: call your bank or even better: go to the bank and ask.
CL wrote:So you are saying Paul, that if I accept that site certificate once--it will be remembered and as long as I don't accept another one (if that error message pops up again) then I should be fine (as far as someone trying to hack the site or my computer)? Or do I have to track the site certificate every time I go to the site and make sure it is the same one?
Arpat wrote:If you accept it (the certificate) AND have checked the URL then you can be sure enough your on the right server (this simple statement is NOT valid for banking systems where money is spend by criminals to create a way to have a faster responding DNS to redirect you to a "similar" server. Cheaper tricks are: having you send a message with a request to login, the URL seems valid, but the actual IP is not correct. With a third party check like verisign the certificate will be invalid.
This kind of invalid IS a big risk.
The risk that you referring to can't be blocked with HTTPS. Hacking of a HTTPS enabled system is difficult. due to the problem thjat they cant read your name/password once it is setup. Your certificate (which gives the error because it can't be validated with third party) can be validated by you. You need to "install" the certificate. (it's not necessary to do so, just read the url)

about the hacking part: the certificate only makes your communication to and from the server you intend to talk with obscure for anybody else. so as mister spock would say:
if the hacker is on the server he can hack your pc if he has the knowledge. The certificate makes no difference.
If the hacker is somewhere else then he has the problem that he cant see what you are doing (because the PC-Server communciation is hashed (unreadable)). Thats why you can use paypal safely: no-one except the server can read your login, password and codes. (technique used is described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography)
however, if someone is already ON your PC with a keylogger that reads your typing and sends the criminal everything you type, then it will be possible for a criminal to act like he is you. (he can go to the bank, use your name and password)
however today banks use a extra security feature: a token (like a number from a device or a code send by phone)

the risk of being hacked is not mitigated by a certificate. its the way the certificate works that makes communication safe. verisign adds the third party check that you are talking to paypaL.com (and not paypaLL.com) and the token makes it safe. (safe enough - banks and government use it.)
there are other ways to ensure someones identity, but current law will prohibit a real proof of personae. (i could get your name and password, steal your token or mobile phone and the bank would not be able to tell the difference.) if you go to the bank, deliver a DNA sample and have a DNA sampler at home that instant sends a sample to the bank and instant ly the bank can verify then the bank only can say It is really CL on the other end. (but still no way to see if you are willingly or forced to transfer money)
Security is a big issue and every system has its flaws...
i hope its a little bit more clear... and next time when you use online banking you know a little bit more about the why and how.

that way we make 'almost 99%' sure that our donation goes to Richard and not some crooked criminal 8-)

User avatar
Duniagdra
Divine Rank 2
Divine Rank 2
Posts: 6852
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:17 pm
Location: Newark, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by Duniagdra » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:18 am

My vote is for the second option because I'm not registering with multiple rollers just because one is down. It's easier to just submit a post with the intended action and give any applicable bonuses for any rolls necessary for the DM to roll him/herself. If IC comes up before validation is made, then the player can make and post those rolls.
Image Marcus Tilsworth - Human Sorcerer
Image Ulyuk Bok - Elan Gestalt
Image Tryzscatzmel Ry - Gnome Alchemist
Image Image
Image

User avatar
patransom
EPIC Contributor
EPIC Contributor
Posts: 5833
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Arlington, Virginia

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by patransom » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:20 am

I wholeheartedly agree.
Image

User avatar
klakxor
Retired Global Op.
Retired Global Op.
Posts: 3611
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:43 pm
Location: Morrisville, PA
Contact:

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by klakxor » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:35 am

I have to agree as well. Multiple rollers could cause confusion especially if IC is only down for a couple hours. Then you may have rolls in two different systems for just one round. Follow that through to 10 rounds and then you are looking at an incredible headache trying to verify rolls.

cave_lion
Divine Rank 1
Divine Rank 1
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:33 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by cave_lion » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:08 am

Comments noted. My intent really was not to use IC as a backup--but to replace it completely. But right now the vote is strongly in favor of leaving things as they are (you rut mongers :D )

Arpat has found another option that is viable--even as just a backup since there is no registration. It just emails the results of the role to those specified. This does add an extra step--but it does ensure that the role is verified.

http://dice.EvilDM.net

(I do take exception to the name :evil: )

If I can figure out how to mod the poll I will add it as an option--but at this point I will just drop this and stop whining about how unreliable IC is...

One comment as a DM--I do expect each player to make their own attack roles if it is possible. I have more than enough to do without getting in the habit of doing that for people--so in the future I will be asking for roles rather than doing it for people (unless there is a comment that IC is down--You can use an acronym--ICD--to note why there are no roles.)

cave_lion
Divine Rank 1
Divine Rank 1
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:33 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by cave_lion » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:10 am

hmmm. Looks like no way to mod a poll once set? Well--unless there is an expression of interest in this I will let it lie...

User avatar
greg_BSCIS
BARON
BARON
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 8:34 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by greg_BSCIS » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:38 am

I will go with the group's consensus. Sometimes I do not like the DM rolling for me. It feels like my control has been lost, or my good, or my bad luck is relying on someone else's. I am truly the "Destined One" and like to be in control of my destiny as much as possible.

Now to define "Destined One". I may not become a famous or wealthy "Destined One", never-the-less I want to be in charge of my own destiny.
Image
Image
Image

cave_lion
Divine Rank 1
Divine Rank 1
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:33 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by cave_lion » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:47 am

greg_BSCIS wrote:I will go with the group's consensus. Sometimes I do not like the DM rolling for me. It feels like my control has been lost, or my good, or my bad luck is relying on someone else's. I am truly the "Destined One" and like to be in control of my destiny as much as possible.
I actually agree with this assessment Greg--which is why I have made it an issue. Invisible Castle being down once in a while (or a lot even) doesn't really bother me--but rolling other people's luck does kind of make me feel responsible for them. Which is a conflict of interest in my opinion--I'm here to spread pain and destruction your way with an occasional rainbow thrown in--not roll dice for people >:)

So I guess I will avoid rolling for others as much as possible--but I am willing to do it for those who don't mind. I will keep in mind that you prefer to roll your own...

User avatar
greg_BSCIS
BARON
BARON
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 8:34 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by greg_BSCIS » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:53 am

Also I created a new profile on Invisiblecastle so I can properly post my dice rolls. My previous profile was broken for some reason. Thanks Arpat for the heads up.
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Duniagdra
Divine Rank 2
Divine Rank 2
Posts: 6852
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:17 pm
Location: Newark, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by Duniagdra » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:34 am

As a DM for four (4) PbP games here, I agree. I don't in any way wish to roll for players. But If in their post they say IC is down and post their action with the bonuses, I'll check IC when I'm ready to validate. If it's still down, I'm just not going to hold up my game because of that. Move it on and make the roll. If, however, I find that IC is back up, and there is not need to validate because everyone responded quickly, I'll ask them to then make their own rolls.

Keeping the game moving should always be a DMs top priority, especially here in PbP where they drag on long enough as is.

On the topic of this other roller sending results in email, emails do get lost. I've known of other roller clients that do use email notification. They still rely on a server, the Internet, and all that in between. Nothing is problem free. Keeping it all on IC means you never have to look any other place for a history of rolls. Me personally, if a DM asked me to make rolls somewhere else just because IC is down, I'd flat out not do it. But that's just me. And I'm not taking a shot at anyone. I just feel that if you're validating, how much time does it really take to pick up some dice and just roll them?

Someone proposed to me that if IC is down, he could give a video of his roll in the post. LOL All I said was a simple Nope.
Image Marcus Tilsworth - Human Sorcerer
Image Ulyuk Bok - Elan Gestalt
Image Tryzscatzmel Ry - Gnome Alchemist
Image Image
Image

User avatar
greg_BSCIS
BARON
BARON
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 8:34 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by greg_BSCIS » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:54 pm

Ok, Invisible Castle is down again - what are we going to do - wait or use an alternative?
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Duniagdra
Divine Rank 2
Divine Rank 2
Posts: 6852
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:17 pm
Location: Newark, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by Duniagdra » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:07 pm

greg_BSCIS wrote:Ok, Invisible Castle is down again - what are we going to do - wait or use an alternative?
The poll above seems to say it all. #2 dominates.
Image Marcus Tilsworth - Human Sorcerer
Image Ulyuk Bok - Elan Gestalt
Image Tryzscatzmel Ry - Gnome Alchemist
Image Image
Image

cave_lion
Divine Rank 1
Divine Rank 1
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:33 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by cave_lion » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:07 pm

The poll vote was strongly in favor of option 2: "Just stick with IC and let DM roll dice if it is down"

So that is what we will do for now--everyone is used to IC as it is the one all the PbP games on the TOS forum are using (to my knowledge). Introducing another element, to an already complex setup, is more than people care to deal with.

So you can hold off a bit Greg with whatever you were going to do--or just note what your rolls are in your post and I will make them when I validate. I am planning on posting the next validation for Group B tomorrow morning (which is the time frame I am going to try and stick with of 2 days + 1/2 day possibly depending on posting time.) So you have time still...

User avatar
greg_BSCIS
BARON
BARON
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 8:34 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by greg_BSCIS » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:14 pm

Roger - no problem with that - just making sure... :)

Just when it is time to roll again and the dice are loaded - just make sure you pick the monster dice for my rolls or the dice with the most favorable results ... ;) ... :lol: ... just kidding - roll on.
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Duniagdra
Divine Rank 2
Divine Rank 2
Posts: 6852
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:17 pm
Location: Newark, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by Duniagdra » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:31 pm

greg_BSCIS wrote:Roger - no problem with that - just making sure... :)

Just when it is time to roll again and the dice are loaded - just make sure you pick the monster dice for my rolls or the dice with the most favorable results ... ;) ... :lol: ... just kidding - roll on.
If I said this, I wouldn't be kidding. :D You better be rolling the dice that give out the best results.
Image Marcus Tilsworth - Human Sorcerer
Image Ulyuk Bok - Elan Gestalt
Image Tryzscatzmel Ry - Gnome Alchemist
Image Image
Image

cave_lion
Divine Rank 1
Divine Rank 1
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:33 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Die Roller Poll

Post by cave_lion » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:43 pm

lol

Post Reply

Return to “{PbP} The World's Largest Dungeon [CLOSED]{Pathfinder}”