OOC Comments/Questions/Rule Clarifications (B)

[scarymike23]

"Since you are not doing the AP refresh, I'd think you would be recommending their usage all the time ."


Are there different rules for APs than normal? Don't they only refresh on Level up?

[shai-hulud]

"Since you are not doing the AP refresh, I'd think you would be recommending their usage all the time ."


Are there different rules for APs than normal? Don't they only refresh on Level up?

They don't refresh. You simply add your new total of APs to whatever you have left when you level up. So, if at 1st level, you use 3 APs, leaving 2, then when you get to 2nd level, you gain 6 APs for a total of 8.

[greg_BSCIS]

The 2 campaigns: are separate. And should stay that way. I highly recommend you avoid reading the events in Campaign B if you are in Campaign A. And vice versus. I realize that most of us searched our parents room for presents before Christmas. Can we assume everyone has grown up now? All you will end up doing is ruining the surprise... There are many other very interesting PbP's here--go read them if you have extra time on your hands. The 2 campaigns will evolve differently anyway over time--so you will just end up wondering why you didn't get that +5 Flame Blade...

wiki: There can be two separate wiki's for the two separate Campaigns. If players do choose to use them, Richard can set this up. I would again strongly suggest you stay in your specific Campaign and avoid looking at the other one.

You know, I should create or have Rich create two separate Treasure, Monster and Journal areas for the two teams and everything else can remain 1 pagers.

[cave_lion]

That would be great if you can set something up Greg--but you should leave the other group to their own devices. It is nice of you to add the character info for both groups, and setting up the skeleton framework would be cool too, but beyond that each group really should do their own thing.

I did talk to Richard at one point about the best way to set up the wiki. If I remember--he was fine with setting up two separate areas. Or, as you say, you can just separate things from the one page. That will be more tempting for people to peek at the other game from time to time--so I would prefer it is done with two separate areas. But whoever does the work will have to decide what works best for them and the rest will just have to follow from that...

[cave_lion]

I split out my portion of the wiki into three pages: Bonus Action Point Log; Dungeon Defaults; and Rule Clarifications

Assume ceilings are 20' high unless otherwise noted.

[cave_lion]

OUT OF CHARACTER

After I talk to Kenken and see the shadows up ahead, Taedyn casts a shield spell thinking most things in here are not friendly.

 

I just wanted to give everyone a heads up regarding a bit of my style as a DM. There will almost always be opportunities to interact with any creature--even the evil ones--and communicate in some way or other. Battle is always an option, of course, but it is one option among many others. You do not have to assume that every creature you meet is going to be a battle to the death--there will always be opportunity to strike up conversations, form alliances, and possibly even make friends along the way. I'm not suggesting that could have happened with these 3 orcs, by the way, but just keep in mind that many of the denizens of the dungeon are just living their lives like others are anywhere else--they just happen to be in the dungeon. Every creature starts out at a certain state--from friendly to hostile--and based on the PC's actions, this state can move up or down, depending on the creature and the situation. I just don't want you to feel like you have to attack every single thing you run across--if I have given that impression it is incorrect.

I also want to do a bit of a better description of the Dungeon as it stands in the time frame of the PC's. This Dungeon is much different from just a prison with the evil "damaged" ones in it. It has been broken for many many years. Most of the creatures in it have nothing to do with the original inhabitants. One of the ideas of the writers was to throw in one example of every type of creature in the SRD. And they did this--so yes--there are some really bad undead, demons, and other miscellaneous creatures who are incredibly ancient and very dangerous (and some not so dangerous too but still tainted with the element that makes them "damaged.") But in addition to this--there have been large populations of different creatures move into the Dungeon after the point it was cracked open (which was again--a really long time ago.)

I was unhappy with some of the logic that the original story had in it--so I worked out an altered story with much more history and story behind it. There is now a story that you will be able to piece together as you move through the Dungeon--what the "damaged" ones are, where they came from, why the celestials captured and trapped them in the dungeon, why they did that on Golarion, etc. This is good in two ways. First--you can have TWLD and read through the whole thing and have no idea what I am going to do in any particular place. Second, and most importantly, the campaign has become more than just a simple dungeon crawl--so it should be able to hold everyone's interest for an extended period of time as you work on figuring out what is going on.

[cave_lion]

Regarding Knowledge Checks to Identify Monsters, I found here a house rule I want to try out. All the players really need to worry about is what check to make based on type of monster:

* Arcana (constructs, dragons, magical beasts)
* Dungeoneering (aberrations, oozes)
* Local (humanoids)
* Nature (animals, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin)
* Religion (undead)
* The planes (outsiders, elementals)

You make the knowledge check and I will determine everything else--but it will be based on the linked house rule. Basically I will determine for each monster a Rarity rating and a Prominence rating which will be used to modify the DC and also to determine the information available to the player based on their roll.

[cave_lion]

I think you are metagaming a bit here (making assumptions based on how orcs have been in other games you've played). On Golarion (Pathfinder Bestiary) orcs actually have "common" as a second language in their description.

If I was metagaming then I would have known they spoke common too... Besides wouldn't a sorcerer have knowledge of Orcs which seem to be one of the most plentiful monster in DnD and PF? But to be safe, sure I can roll for Knowledge. Although, it will be a human's perception of Orcs and not a scientific one since I only have knowledge in history. History is a combination of true events and perceptions. Or it could be Taedyn's perception of Orcs too?

One aspect of metagaming is looking at rules a character does not have access to (in which case you would have known that orcs commonly speak common). Another is using the knowledge a player has gained from their play in prior campaigns, as if that knowledge is their character's knowledge. Here is a link that details many of the ways metagaming can happen for those interested in all the possible traps. Not a big deal--happens to all of us. This has actually been helpful since it has gotten me thinking about how to handle these kinds of knowledge checks.

I did post info in the OOC thread (and the wiki) about these checks. In this case an orc is both "very common" and "well known". The knowledge check could be based on either "Knowledge, local" or "Knowledge, nature". If you don't have either of these you just do the ability check based on your knowledge-based ability (Intelligence usually.) The orc has a DC5 given its status--which for Taedyn means he automatically knows pretty much everything about the average orc and their potential. You can open the Bestiary and read whatever you want-and after the knowledge check I will post a basic description right out of the Bestiary for players to read. But--there is always the chance you will roll the 1 on your check--which would lead to a certain amount of mis-information. Taedyn's response with the orc speaking common is a great example of how this mis-information could play out in the case of a common/well known creature. In that case the bad info would be something relatively minor that would affect role play but not necessarily endanger anyone. And someone else could add their knowledge check in to make sure this kind of error could be discussed and dealt with in the party. After you are successful with a knowledge check on a simple creature like an orc, I will not ever ask for another check for this particular type of monster, unless there are other factors going on that would modify the base role. In the instance of the orcs--I would allow another check to determine that you were dealing with 1 barbarian and 2 fighters of probably lower levels based on this particular encounter. Of course in a case where a battle happens almost instantly, there is really no time to do this effectively--but you could do the check after the battle to learn more if you chose to.

[greg_BSCIS]

Does this extend to weapons and everything else? I don't want to be a pain, I want to do it correctly, but should we roll for everything to prevent metagaming?

I mean how would someone be able to tell between a catapult, a scorpion, and a trebuchet? Or the difference between a broadsword, or great sword, or a long sword?

I mean what does my character know especially since he was living with a sorcerer for a while?

[cave_lion]

Does this extend to weapons and everything else? I don't want to be a pain, I want to do it correctly, but should we roll for everything to prevent metagaming?

I mean how would someone be able to tell between a catapult, a scorpion, and a trebuchet? Or the difference between a broadsword, or great sword, or a long sword?

I mean what does my character know especially since he was living with a sorcerer for a while?

This doesn't apply to weapons use, since they have their own system set up for that. As a PC though if you are trying to determine something specific regarding the difference between a catapult/scorpion/trebuchet then yes--I would expect a knowledge check to determine that. This is the only way to place things in terms of the character (and somewhat eliminate the metagaming thing.) But in this example--would anyone really need to tell the difference between these three things? Most common people would not differentiate between types of catapults or swords--they would just say sword or catapult. This falls under very common items which do not require any checks to know. Now if you want to use one of these things--again there is already a system in place for that regarding weapons. Knowing the difference between three fairly similar items for some specific application would require a check depending on what you were trying to do. Walk out on the street and see how many people know what a scorpion or trebuchet are by name only. Not many will--though most will know the word catapult. And visually--many people would call all three of these things catapult if they saw one on the street (maybe not the scorpion--many people would call that a crossbow I would guess.) Granted these things are not common anymore--but they serve as an example. In many cases I may just gloss over (or allow a metagaming situation) and assume a character knows the difference between even unusual items if the person playing the character does--just to save time--especially if it is not a matter of life or death and if the character has the appropriate Knowledge skill to make a learned check if they needed to (or, as in the case of Taedyn a high intelligence).

As far as living with a sorcerer--that should be reflected in your Knowledge/Craft/and or Profession skills (as per the game mechanics). If it is not then you must roll a skill or ability check just like anyone else would to see if your character knows anything specific. There is not a "I lived with a sorcerer" skill so that can't be reflected in the game mechanics properly...

This is not meant to force people to do skill checks for silly common things. Everyone in most parts of the world knows what a cow is for example. You don't have to roll a knowledge check to see if you are actually trying to milk a cat. Does this mean you just know how to milk one or slaughter one? Not at all--those are skills with difficulties associated with them--so you would roll to see if you can do that properly if you ever needed to. Unless you had a profession of farmer say--which would then change milking and slaughtering to very common skills that, in general, any farmer would know how to do--or at least know how to do better than the average joe.

[greg_BSCIS]

Sounds like a plan that way we can be safe...

[Arpat]

i just roleplay into a situation and if i am required to do a roll then i will hear so.. or look utterly foolish when trying to do something when Dordolio tought he grasped the thingie.

I try to imagine if it is something Dordolio possibly could know... why else would he bother to bring a tent into the dungeons. he doesn't know if there are areas in dungeons that are cold, windy and damp. (hell eve i don't know. All i know is that it can be very cold...) and well he had a tent since he was traveling.
So i assume he knows what a tent is, how to use it and what to do with it.

Its fun to roleplay things this way and the PbP makes it even possible... maybe not as possible as on a real table, since you can't see any gestures i could make of funny faces that accompany a certain state my hero would be in (like pulling a weird face when smelling troglodyte poo).
However an ooc can fix that... haha...

OUT OF CHARACTER

so... mister DM, how am i supposed to shave the hair of my tongue?

 

[cave_lion]

i just roleplay into a situation and if i am required to do a roll then i will hear so.. or look utterly foolish when trying to do something when Dordolio tought he grasped the thingie.

I try to imagine if it is something Dordolio possibly could know... why else would he bother to bring a tent into the dungeons. he doesn't know if there are areas in dungeons that are cold, windy and damp. (hell eve i don't know. All i know is that it can be very cold...) and well he had a tent since he was traveling.
So i assume he knows what a tent is, how to use it and what to do with it.

Its fun to roleplay things this way and the PbP makes it even possible... maybe not as possible as on a real table, since you can't see any gestures i could make of funny faces that accompany a certain state my hero would be in (like pulling a weird face when smelling troglodyte poo).
However an ooc can fix that... haha...

OUT OF CHARACTER

so... mister DM, how am i supposed to shave the hair of my tongue?

 

Dordolio hears an evil voice echoing in his mind You went into a dungeon without a tongue razor? Wow. You are doomed little halfling. DOOMED I TELL YOU...

But seriously, I am not getting what you are saying in that first paragraph Arpat? "i just roleplay into a situation and if i am required to do a roll then i will hear so.. or look utterly foolish when trying to do something when Dordolio tought he grasped the thingie."

That doesn't make any sense using the english I know Can you try to say that again another way?

"Hair on your tongue" is just a figure of speech Arpat--in case you have never heard it. It is mostly used to describe how your mouth feels when you have been out drinking all day and night--after you have slept a few hours and then wake up... Not a pleasant feeling (so I'm told )

[Arpat]

LOL
with his tongou out of his mouth: “wheb i habve hail on by bongue i beed do shaab ib.. i ufe my flord welly calefubby”

To rephrase my honky-tonk enlish or to say it in another way:
if i encounter something like a trebuchet then i can act like i know it or i can write something like:

Dordolio looks at the strange wooden contraption, it seems familiar...
Memories of a similar device but ...

this would be where i stop writing and give the DM the chance to react:
Dordolio needs to roll "ancient constructions" with a DC 15 to recognise the construction.

or i can do something like this:
Dordolio sees the strange contraption and is sure ha has never seen it before.

instead of

Dordolio walks to the trebuchet

OUT OF CHARACTER

what do i need to roll to recognise it?

 

which is not roleplaying at all.

If dordolio has made music in bars and inn's he would have a slim chance of knowing such a machine. So i decide in such a case that it would be unlikely that he would know it. Metagming would be like playing me, knowing the device in detail and react in such a way that it only is lucky dice rolling to know or not knowing something.
I doesn't make it easy, since you cannot possibly be Dordolio and therefore always mix up your personal experience (like breathing through your mouth when something really stinks like corpses - by the way: it works. ) RPG isn't about easy, but about playing a role.

The best thing about pathfinder is that it more emphasizes (in my opinion) on playing the role then like the DND 4th dicing your way through a game..
It's like using calculus to find the best way to create characters... discussing if "+4 attack is better" then "+2 attack & +1 dmg" etc...

ah.. i believe i sometimes forget to stick to the point... but i guess its clear what i am talking about??

[cave_lion]

ah.. i believe i sometimes forget to stick to the point... but i guess its clear what i am talking about??

Yepper--I get it now That sounds great Arpat--the way it should be played out imho.
It's interesting the ways PbP is so different from tabletop gaming in many ways. For my personality, I actually like it better --because everyone gets an equal chance to contribute--whereas in a normal tabletop game there are usually a few stronger personalities that do a majority of the talking... In many ways, the stronger personalities tend to overshadow PbP too, by posting more and being more involved--but at least everyone has the opportunity to participate equally (whether or not everyone does is another matter.)

[Arpat]

Hehe the more involved players also have a bigger chance of getting the bigger problem and for some people it is acceptable to float along and add to the overall experience.
The PbP way gives a DM with a weaker player enough space to work something out and give the weaker player the feeling he is important. And if the loudmouth and the shy-guy both feel important, well then we all get what we need/want.
i remember that one time that a weak player had an opportunity to enter a small hole where the loudmouth (that wanted to put everything to his hand) could not follow... so mr loudmouth had a problem... and finally depended on the little guy to open the door so he could escape... after he took a fair beating :p MUUAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA...

[shai-hulud]

Tip for sorcerers: If you have Prestidigitation, use it to clean a one foot cube of air. Keep that one foot cube of air hovering around your nose. Since it takes a round to clean it, you must spend a round each time you move to clean the air around you. You can now move through areas of intensely bad smells without issues. This does not negate poison, unfortunately. All it would do is make fresh-smelling poison, but it should work well to negate the smell of fecal matter. If someone else gets shit all over them, they can be cleaned off in a relatively short period of time. It would look and smell as though they never jumped into piles of fecal matter.

[cave_lion]

Just to clarify--some of the info I post may seem a bit out of context or strangely placed--this is because sometimes the other group does something that leads to an explanation that I want to make sure both groups are aware of. So I will repost these things in the other group. I try to fit them in as good as I can in a way that makes sense (it is easier to try and cover both groups at the same time so I don't forget something later.) Sometimes there is not a very good context or connection with these "double posts"--so it is confusing. But better to have a small amount of confusion that I can address than to have a lack of information when you really need it. Hopefully you all can have a touch of patience with me--it is really much tougher than I thought it would be running two separate campaigns of the same thing I am really enjoying it actually, but it is confusing for me sometimes too...

[cave_lion]

Comments regarding order of posting and what to include in your posts: when not in combat/initiative mode you can assume a natural flow of events occurs based largely on the order of people posting and the actions they take--if you want to modify what happens by doing something before someone else who has already posted, just comment on that and in most cases it shouldn't be a problem. The ultimate goal is for us to create a story together that has everyone interacting in a way that makes sense and is fun to read. I will try to leave the validation posts at a place where there are obvious actions that need to occur--for instance, right now the group needs to pick where to go next and decide how to get there. If you can all anticipate any skill checks in advance that will make the story move better and avoid me having to ask for things (or wait for things) to happen. So, for instance, when you know you will be going through a door shortly--that would be a good time to roll a trap check--which I can then integrate into the story when it gets "validated" next time (which shai has been doing). This would also apply if you want to to do Perception checks to search a room--just get in a habit of rolling that check with your post and then I can use that when I validate, rather than having to add the extra step of asking for checks and then waiting for another layer of responses. Having said this--I will assume from now on that if you don't say you are checking for traps or searching a room--you will just be opening the door and walking through a room with just a cursory glance at what is in it (so anything greater than a DC 5 will not be found.)

Spoilers: When I use "spoilers", I am not using them to prevent someone from reading something. I am more using them to show that something happening may not be immediately obvious to everyone. For instance, when Harpsent "whispers" to people he is actually talking telepathically to them. Technically, no one else would know what he said (so it will be in a spoiler). But actually, in most cases whoever is talking to Harpsent would report immediately what was asked, and what he replied--so I use the "spoiler" to create a pause in the action--but everyone should be reading that spoiler--otherwise any follow up actions will not make any sense to everyone else--unless a person repeats what has already been posted--which would be annoying since no one wants to read a bunch of things paraphrased constantly--especially since the validation post is already designed to paraphrase (or just copy) what has happened with everyone. So what I am saying is that everyone should be reading everything in the posts--this may not be 100% realistic, but it leads to a more entertaining experience. If there is anything that I really don't want someone to know about, I will post it with a PM. So if any of you are confused (the need to figure this out came from me realizing that jennaver has been skipping many of the "spoiler" comments because she assumed they were not for her to read)--feel free to go back and read all of the posts (including any spoilers)--as this is necessary to understand what is happening in the story. This is also why I am using the separate Harpsent/Kenken post--to create a separation that still allows everyone to read the story. Thinking about this, it makes more sense to just use "spoilers" in the main posts for this info--so I am probably going to phase out having the separate post to handle Harpsent and Kenken related things. I don't think the separate post adds anything of value over just using the "spoiler" technique--and using both basically leads to redundancy.

[greg_BSCIS]

Tip for sorcerers: If you have Prestidigitation, use it to clean a one foot cube of air. Keep that one foot cube of air hovering around your nose. Since it takes a round to clean it, you must spend a round each time you move to clean the air around you. You can now move through areas of intensely bad smells without issues. This does not negate poison, unfortunately. All it would do is make fresh-smelling poison, but it should work well to negate the smell of fecal matter. If someone else gets shit all over them, they can be cleaned off in a relatively short period of time. It would look and smell as though they never jumped into piles of fecal matter.

Nope, I do not have this cantrip and I will keep it in mind when we make a level.

[greg_BSCIS]

Hey guys I plan to do some Wiki work some time this week. I've been pretty busy lately.

Next week, I have a karate test and I found out from my Sensei last Friday that he wants me to know this Bo Staff Kata before he will promote me to green belt. So I have 4 days +/- to learn the kata well enough for the moves and then I can refine the stances and the little things after the test or after I learn the kata if there is time. I may have to perform the kata solo so there will be less of a chance of playing it off.

[cave_lion]

Hey Greg--if you enjoy the bo and are studying Okinawan technique try to track down the video "Yamanni Ryu Okinawan Bo-Jutsu" by Toshihiro Oshiro. Has some really good pointers on using this weapon for beginning students (and advanced ones too.)

[greg_BSCIS]

The kata is Shushi No Kon and I heard it did originate from Okinawa, however it has been modified for Kyokushin.

[cave_lion]

The kata is Shushi No Kon and I heard it did originate from Okinawa, however it has been modified for Kyokushin.

yes--that was a traditional Okinawan bo kata (spelled Suuji no Kun on the video I mentioned.) It is probably quite different on the video compared to what you are doing--but if you want to see it in a more traditional form and can find the video it is definitely worth your time.