Green Ronin and Fourth Edition D&D

Archives of the Old News.
Post Reply
User avatar
admin
-={ ARCHMAGE }=-
-={ ARCHMAGE }=-
Posts: 11410
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 5:51 pm
Location: Golarion
Contact:

Green Ronin and Fourth Edition D&D

Post by admin »

I found this interesting read about 4th...
admin

(taken from here)
Chris Pramas wrote:I know a lot of fans have been waiting to find out if Green Ronin is going to support 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons and it's a fair question. Green Ronin's second product ever was Death in Freeport, an adventure for 3rd Edition that debuted the same day as the Player's Handbook almost eight years ago. We went on to do quite a lot of 3E support, ending only a couple of months back with the d20 Freeport Companion. Now Wizards of the Coast is terminating the d20 license and offering a different way to support the new edition of D&D. It's called the Game System License and we waited from August of last year until June of this year to see it. We've spent the last few weeks reviewing the license and discussing it internally and we have come to a consensus.

Green Ronin will not be signing the Game System License (GSL) at this time.

We plan to do one product in support of 4E: the Green Ronin Character Record Folio. This will be an update of the d20 System Character Record Folio and we'll be publishing it under the Open Game License (OGL).

Other than that we'll be giving our full attention to our own game lines: Mutants & Masterminds, A Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying, True20 Adventure Roleplaying, and Freeport: The City of Adventure.

We had hoped to include 4E support in our plans, but the terms of the GSL are too one-sided as they stand. We certainly do not blame Wizards of the Coast for wanting to defend their intellectual property and take more control over the type of support products D&D receives. We do not, however, feel that this license treats third party publishers as valued partners. Under its terms WotC could frivolously sue a signatory for supposed violations of the GSL, lose the actual court case, and still ruin the winning company because the license specifies that the signatory has to pay WotC's legal fees. Also, the GSL can be changed at any time and WotC is not legally required to so much as inform its licensees.

Let me be clear in stating that I don't think that the people in charge of WotC currently are just waiting to attack companies with frivolous lawsuits. Once you sign the GSL though, you open yourself up to that at any point in the future. Who knows when new people will take over the D&D brand and who can say what their vision will be? Who knows when the political winds at WotC will change again and things will get even more restrictive? We do not want to operate under such a cloud moving ahead so that's why we won't be signing the GSL.

This means the Green Ronin Character Record Folio is the only 4E compatible product you'll be seeing from us this year and likely for 2009 as well. Perhaps WotC will revise the GSL in the positive way, but we cannot build our business on maybes. We know this will disappoint those of our fans who have embraced 4E and we're sorry about that. We have to make the best business decision for Green Ronin's future and right now this is it.

Thank you for your continued support.

Chris Pramas
President
Green Ronin Publishing
Phoenix512
BARON
BARON
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:54 am
Location: United States, Ohio

Re: Green Ronin and Fourth Edition D&D

Post by Phoenix512 »

So basically if a company's lawyers doesn't read the GSL correctly, WoTC could sue them for a mistake. That's a bit harsh. It makes the Pathfinder route more tempting now.
User avatar
admin
-={ ARCHMAGE }=-
-={ ARCHMAGE }=-
Posts: 11410
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 5:51 pm
Location: Golarion
Contact:

Re: Green Ronin and Fourth Edition D&D

Post by admin »

Phoenix512 wrote:So basically if a company's lawyers doesn't read the GSL correctly, WoTC could sue them for a mistake. That's a bit harsh. It makes the Pathfinder route more tempting now.
I think the WORST part is:
Under its terms WotC could frivolously sue a signatory for supposed violations of the GSL, lose the actual court case, and still ruin the winning company because the license specifies that the signatory has to pay WotC's legal fees.
Astounding!!
Although I concur that the 'current' WotC probably wouldn't do that ,who know that future WotC could do!

Yeah, Pathfinder is a much safer road to travel!

admin
User avatar
Duniagdra
Divine Rank 21
Divine Rank 21
Posts: 2266
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:17 pm
Location: Newark, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Green Ronin and Fourth Edition D&D

Post by Duniagdra »

This could be the beginning of the end for D&D, 4e anyway. All it could take is one lawsuit and too many 3rd party companies would begin to back away. If my impression of the above is right, you really can expose yourself, big or small, to anything possible. It would be saying, "here's my company, tell me what to do and if you don't like what I did, I'll pay you cost for sueing me." I don't know if many companies may continue supporting WotC after the first suit. I know if I were them, I'd never sign a contract so one-sided and hope the best. There's too much risk. WotC may not likely purposely search out the frivolous, but it only takes one lawsuit, ligitamate or not...
Image Marcus Tilsworth - Human Sorcerer
Image Agrous: Human Cleric
Image Ulyuk Bok - Elan Gestalt
Image Tryzscatzmel Ry - Gnome Alchemist
Image Image
Image
User avatar
scantrontb
scantrontb
scantrontb
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:11 pm
Location: federal way, wa. usa

Re: Green Ronin and Fourth Edition D&D

Post by scantrontb »

Duniagdra wrote:This could be the beginning of the end for D&D, 4e anyway. All it could take is one lawsuit and too many 3rd party companies would begin to back away. If my impression of the above is right, you really can expose yourself, big or small, to anything possible. It would be saying, "here's my company, tell me what to do and if you don't like what I did, I'll pay you cost for sueing me." I don't know if many companies may continue supporting WotC after the first suit. I know if I were them, I'd never sign a contract so one-sided and hope the best. There's too much risk. WotC may not likely purposely search out the frivolous, but it only takes one lawsuit, ligitamate or not...
as for it being the "beginning of the end", nah, not really, they will still get their die-hard loyal customers either way.

and I'll bet you that somewhere in that contract is something that says that WotC can still sue them if the signer tries to back out of a deal like that, probably under something like a "breach of contract" clause or some such excuse....

Since WotC seems to be the M$ of the rpg gaming world right now, (the proverbial 800 lb. gorilla that get whatever it wants) and they don't seem too interested in sharing their bananas with anyone else... so if anybody does end up signing, pretty soon they'll be marching in lock-step to WotC's drumbeat without even a peep of dissent, no doubt about that... all the more reason to support Paizo in my opinion...
User avatar
Duniagdra
Divine Rank 21
Divine Rank 21
Posts: 2266
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:17 pm
Location: Newark, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Green Ronin and Fourth Edition D&D

Post by Duniagdra »

scantrontb wrote:
Duniagdra wrote:This could be the beginning of the end for D&D, 4e anyway. All it could take is one lawsuit and too many 3rd party companies would begin to back away. If my impression of the above is right, you really can expose yourself, big or small, to anything possible. It would be saying, "here's my company, tell me what to do and if you don't like what I did, I'll pay you cost for sueing me." I don't know if many companies may continue supporting WotC after the first suit. I know if I were them, I'd never sign a contract so one-sided and hope the best. There's too much risk. WotC may not likely purposely search out the frivolous, but it only takes one lawsuit, ligitamate or not...
as for it being the "beginning of the end", nah, not really, they will still get their die-hard loyal customers either way.

and I'll bet you that somewhere in that contract is something that says that WotC can still sue them if the signer tries to back out of a deal like that, probably under something like a "breach of contract" clause or some such excuse....

Since WotC seems to be the M$ of the rpg gaming world right now, (the proverbial 800 lb. gorilla that get whatever it wants) and they don't seem too interested in sharing their bananas with anyone else... so if anybody does end up signing, pretty soon they'll be marching in lock-step to WotC's drumbeat without even a peep of dissent, no doubt about that... all the more reason to support Paizo in my opinion...
There's no dissagreeing with all of the above scantrontb. Still, this is why I feel we may be seeing the begining of the end, or at the very least, their drop from the top. When the proverbial gorilla steps on too many toes, the gorilla finds himself standing alone eventually. As far as having a clause "breach of contract", yeah I'm sure you're right, but all contracts have a life span unless they are able to declare none. It's not something I've heard of though. This is why I'd love to see this OGL. I'm still looking for it. If Paizo does as they say, WoTC will end up having a strong competitor and could likely draw publishers away from Wizards. This OGL can't stop a publisher from working with other companies, can it? I really want to see it.
Image Marcus Tilsworth - Human Sorcerer
Image Agrous: Human Cleric
Image Ulyuk Bok - Elan Gestalt
Image Tryzscatzmel Ry - Gnome Alchemist
Image Image
Image
User avatar
greg_BSCIS
Horseman
Horseman
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 8:34 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Green Ronin and Fourth Edition D&D

Post by greg_BSCIS »

I know that I am late in posting this thread and that is due to my rare appearances on the forum.

There are only two good things to say about 4 edition DnD - It is simple and the art is great. Other than that, if I want to play a MMO, I will play Lord of the Rings - Online

http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042 ... nature.png >>> my warg in LOTRO Player Versus Monster Player.

4 edition is what I have canned - PnP-MMO. It has taken the fantasy out of DnD. I agree that DnD had become a little bloated with rules and perhaps 4e did this but to take away the fantasy out of the game is a tragedy.

Thus, it makes me happy that TOS+ will not support 4th edition. With a few exceptions, 3.5 edition is the best.
Image
Image
Image
Post Reply

Return to “The Lost Writings [Old News]”