Scrolls? [added in v1.20]

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neofax
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Scrolls? [added in v1.20]

Post by neofax » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:39 pm

How would I go about adding scrolls to the list? In our campaign, the GM gives out scrolls as treasure and I would like to track these and typing each one is not fun.

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Re: Scrolls?

Post by Duniagdra » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:27 pm

Considering that a scroll is nothing more than a written spell, and the list of spells is vast, I'm thinking that it will not be likely to ever see actual scrolls in the LD as it's easier for the user to just enter them as they come up. It's just impossible to guess what spells someone will use as a scroll.

At least, this is why I see them not being there already. If you wish to add them, just go to the data sheet and enter them. I believe it the same reason that potions and wands cannot be made in the LD without typing them into the data sheet.

Perhaps if there were categories reserved for these, custom potions custom scrolls and custom wands, and then tables made available to the user as custom tables for the Item Builder, then maybe the user could make these items?
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neofax
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Re: Scrolls?

Post by neofax » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:30 pm

Having the ability to have a group set aside for Scrolls would be great. This way, people could contribute OGL scrolls and many benefit from this work. Kinda how the Custom Armor and such is already.

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Re: Scrolls?

Post by admin » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:43 pm

A scroll is a spell (or collection of spells) that has been stored in written form
Scrolls are difficult to list because of the possibility underlined above - with the number of possible spells available!
And to add to the complexity, some spells have material components that adds to the cost of the Scroll.
And as if this wasn't complex enough, Pathfinder had different value/price for scrolls depending on the class!! (ickes!)

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Re: Scrolls?

Post by admin » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:12 pm

Oh and I was forgetting - Spells can have different levels for different classes/domains. For example, the Stoneskin spell is:
5th level for a Druid, 6th level for the Earth and Strength Domains and 4th level for Sor/Wiz!

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Re: Scrolls?

Post by ScryingEye » Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:41 am

I would think that the only thing that needs to be calculated is the three main factors: class, spell level, and caster level. The name of the acutal spell itself could be listed as only a note on the side. (If you want to start considering the costs of the material componets, that's another matter...) Could this be intergrated into the item builder, or would it be easier to just add a seperate page?

The exact same page/system could be used to generate the costs of a potion, too.

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Re: Scrolls?

Post by admin » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:42 am

neofax wrote:How would I go about adding scrolls to the list? In our campaign, the GM gives out scrolls as treasure and I would like to track these and typing each one is not fun.
Version 1.20 of the Loot Divider has 412 Arcane Scrolls and 340 Divine scrolls added (including the Scroll type).
I picked up the list of scrolls that was published in the SRD (HERE) - you can check the release notes for v1.20 HERE.

This version is currently in Beta Testing, but will soon be updated on Paizo's website.

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Re: Scrolls?

Post by Mosaic » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:37 pm

All right, so I'm one of the folks who begged for scrolls to be included in the treasure lists. First of all, I'm super happy that "scroll" is now one of the treasure types, so I can now add custom scrolls as needed.

Unfortunately, adding all the possible scrolls to the treasure list seems to have led to a different problem. It seems that a drop-down menus in Excel can only handle so many choices. This was actually a small problem before - in version 1.0 (1.1?) bonked out at "Horseshoes of Peerless Speed" and didn't make it all the way through the wondrous item list. But now it won't even scroll farther than "Divine Scroll of Silence."

So here's my thought (and to a lesser extent, this applies to potions and wands as well). When you created this first treasure lists, you didn't put weapons or armor because there are too many combinations. Instead, for weapons and armor, we use the Item Builder and create the exact weapon or armor we need. What if scrolls (and potions and wands) worked the same way? The first box in Item Builder is called "Selection List" - we can already choose each treasure type, why not make one of the choices simply Scroll, and then in the "Item Name" box chose from Arcane or Divine, in the "Property List" you'd select the level of the spell, and finally in the "Property #1" box you'd select the spell. It would end up reading something like: Scroll [arcane, level 1, chill touch].

The nice thing is you could do exactly the same thing with wands and potions. I recognize that this adds several steps that could probably be collapsed (right now, you can build a scroll using the Item Builder in 2 steps), but I think there is a certain elegance and wisdom to having multiple items that all build the same way, e.g., weapons, armor, scrolls, potions, and wands. Also, because you'd be using multiple sublists, no one list would need to be so long.

Another benefit would be that - because there are multiple Property # boxes, you could list multiple spells on the same scroll (although, using my model, they'd have to be the same level).

Like I said, it's a suggestion. The current 2-step system for selecting scroll level and then specific scrolls works too. But whatever you end up doing, that treasure item list is way too long, mostly because of scrolls, but also because of potions and wands. If nothing else, I'd strongly suggest you pull all three categories from the pre-generated treasure list and have them created via the Item Builder like armor and weapons.

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Re: Scrolls?

Post by admin » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:19 pm

Mosaic wrote: It seems that a drop-down menus in Excel can only handle so many choices. This was actually a small problem before - in version 1.0 (1.1?) bonked out at "Horseshoes of Peerless Speed" and didn't make it all the way through the wondrous item list. But now it won't even scroll farther than "Divine Scroll of Silence."
Where do you see that?
If I go to the Data worksheet, and add a custom item, then back at the Treasure! sheet, I can, by using the "All Items" filter, get ALL the list of items.. including the custom one i added... So I' do not encounter this limitation you seem to see!!?

What application/version are you using? I'm on Excel 2003 v11.6560.6568 SP2

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Re: Scrolls?

Post by Mosaic » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:21 am

Excel 2004 for Mac, version 11.4.1

And just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, I'm talking about the long drop-down menu that appears in column B of the Treasure! tab. For me, it doesn't seem to be able to be longer than 1024 lines.

Also, you mention the All Items filter. I hadn't fiddled with that before. Now that I try, it gives me the little up/down arrows as if there were a drop down menu, but there is no drop down menu. What should I be seeing here? The treasure types list so I don't actually have to scroll through the whole list? That'd be handy.

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Re: Scrolls?

Post by admin » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:14 am

Mosaic wrote:Excel 2004 for Mac, version 11.4.1

And just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, I'm talking about the long drop-down menu that appears in column B of the Treasure! tab. For me, it doesn't seem to be able to be longer than 1024 lines.
Yep, I am also talking about that.
Mosaic wrote:Also, you mention the All Items filter. I hadn't fiddled with that before. Now that I try, it gives me the little up/down arrows as if there were a drop down menu, but there is no drop down menu. What should I be seeing here? The treasure types list so I don't actually have to scroll through the whole list? That'd be handy.
The Demo Video (in the Preview section of the Home Page) shows the Item Filter in action (at around time index 1:43) - You can check that for an example of use.
I am not sure why the Mac would not allow this...

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Re: Scrolls?

Post by admin » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:40 pm

Also, I checked in OpenOffice, and this is not a problem in that application...!
Pretty weird!

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Re: Scrolls? [added in v1.20]

Post by Mosaic » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:41 pm

Interestingly enough, when I type in "divine scroll of silence" manually, the correct values pop up (so it's tapping into the data lists), and when I type in "divine scroll of snare" (next on the data list, the first that DOES NOT appear on my pull down menu), it also pops up with the correct values. So it is still referring back to the data lists correctly, it's just not displaying the full list.

Side question. Even if it's displaying the full list on PCs, that's a list that is well over 1000 items long. You know how on some programs you pull down a menu and some of the menu items have little arrows next to them, opening up second pull down menus that are subordinate to the items on the first pull down menu? Any chance an Excel sheet can do that? That way the first pull down menu wouldn't have to show EVERYTHING, just the main categories (potion, scroll, wand, staff, etc.). The specific wands could show up in the second subordinate pull down menu. You wouldn't have to see all the wands unless you were actually looking for a wand. It would certainly trim down that massive list considerably.

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Re: Scrolls? [added in v1.20]

Post by admin » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:06 pm

Mosaic wrote:Interestingly enough, when I type in "divine scroll of silence" manually, the correct values pop up (so it's tapping into the data lists), and when I type in "divine scroll of snare" (next on the data list, the first that DOES NOT appear on my pull down menu), it also pops up with the correct values. So it is still referring back to the data lists correctly, it's just not displaying the full list.
So it does appear to be some limitation on Mac Excel. Perhaps you can google about this to see if it is a glitch in excel (that was fixed) or just a hard limit in Excel.

Mosaic wrote:]Side question. Even if it's displaying the full list on PCs, that's a list that is well over 1000 items long. You know how on some programs you pull down a menu and some of the menu items have little arrows next to them, opening up second pull down menus that are subordinate to the items on the first pull down menu? Any chance an Excel sheet can do that? That way the first pull down menu wouldn't have to show EVERYTHING, just the main categories (potion, scroll, wand, staff, etc.). The specific wands could show up in the second subordinate pull down menu. You wouldn't have to see all the wands unless you were actually looking for a wand. It would certainly trim down that massive list considerably.
Alas, Excel does not have that functionality as far as I know. Did you see this Tip on how to access 'stuff' faster? That could be helpful...!

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Re: Scrolls? [added in v1.20]

Post by Mosaic » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:41 pm

admin wrote:Did you see this Tip on how to access 'stuff' faster? That could be helpful...!
RIGHT! That's that filter thing that my Excel isn't doing. Darn. Still no drop down menu, but it seems that I can type in "Potion," "Wondrous Item," etc. and manually get it to filter. I'll be bummed if this is some Mac limitation.

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