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draconas
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Questions here please

Post by draconas » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:47 pm

Answers will be forthcoming.

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Post by shai-hulud » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:25 pm

Gestalt makes races with level adjustment difficult to play because they lose out on a lot of ability. In my games, here is how I handle it:

If you have a race that has level adjustment, each of those "lost levels" count as class levels on one side of the gestalt. You may gain class ability on the other side. Example: Ogre Dire Wererat has five racial hit dice and +5 level adjustment. This makes for a very weak gestalt character. So, what I have done in past gestalt games is allowed players to gestalt classes with racial hit dice AND level adjustment. Here is how it works: Let us assume the character decides to take Barbarian:

Ogre / Barbarian 5, +5 level adjustment / Barbarian 5

Now, the level adjustment levels offer no hit dice while Barbarian offers a d12 hit die. By the rules of gestalt, it would seem Barbarian would win (as it is the better of the two). This is the one situation where I overrule that so that no matter what class you take along with the level adjustment levels, you gain no hit die for that level, only class abilities. This way, you have the abilities of a 10th level barbarian, but still only five hit dice. This fits in line better with the idea of gestalt (for your consideration only). I am not sure if you want to try this out, as it can be complicated to add to the sheet (there is currently no way to add hit die-less class levels).
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Post by draconas » Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:30 am

Interesting and I see where you are coming from.

I think it would however, make my brain explode. I'll think on it.

What are some of the cons of just halfing the level adjustment?

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Post by shai-hulud » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:14 am

The major con is that you will have some characters (who go straight gestalt) having a lot of options at their disposal, and others who have chosen races with racial hit dice and level adjustment, having far fewer options. The straight gestalt characters will exhibit survivability while the non-straight gestalt characters will likely die quickly. Gestalt does not add too much power, only survivability and versatility.

Edit: Sorry, I misunderstood your question. Halfing the level adjustment would not add much in the way of versatility, but would add a great deal of power. Power results from hit dice and ability scores. Races with high level adjustments tend to grant amazing ability scores. By giving them hit dice, as well, you are not only increasing their versatility and survivability, but also their power. Halfing level adjustments has the potential to unbalance a game. Ludicrous example:

With 10 levels, I can come up with two different character concepts, an Orc Barbarian/Fighter 1 Werebear Hulking Hurler/Fighter 1 (afflicted lycanthrope). If he began with 18 strength and put two more into strength from level increases, he would have a strength of 40. This would allow him to throw a stone which would deal 24d6 damage. Now, if you half the level adjustment (+2 down to +1), he can take one more level of hulking hurler, taking the overburdened heave ability, and now his weapon deals 48d6 damage!!! Double the damage from one more level!!! One level can make a big difference!!!
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Post by shai-hulud » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:57 am

That is not really a good example though. Hulking Hurler is broken at high strength scores anyway.

A better example would be a pixie that knows Irresistable Dance as a spell-like ability. It has a +6 level adjustment. By reducing its level adjustment to +3, you now have a character that is always invisible with three extra hit dice to keep it alive. It becomes that much more difficult to kill the pixie (who is also able to fly around to keep out of harm's way).
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Post by draconas » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:07 pm

Good point... with suitably ridiculus illustration.

I think overally, I am not going with either stratergy, given this is a linear game with no attempt at long plot I am interested in seeing what interesting class combinations people think up and how they work/or fail to work as the case may be. Interesting races are more for single-class games.

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